“[12:25] she started attacking me verbally, said the stuff she said about wanting to see me, feeling romantic, it’s just her getting caught up in my sweet words
[12:25] and that she doesn’t feel anything between us
[12:26] she tried to cut off ties again, saying she won’t write to me while telling me not to send any emails for the next month…
[12:31] i can listen to her, but when someone’s feelings for me are that much in doubt, when she can’t be sure about that fundamental thing and needs to attack it constantly, it makes it very hard to feel like i should be listening to everything else…
[13:12] yes, we both probably say things we don’t mean
[13:13] but in this type of situation, doing and saying the complete opposite of what we really feel seems to be inherent in women. i’m trying to see beyond the literal smokescreens and read into the feelings she transmitted without words” (p.39, 40)
I know that many people are going to ask why I’ve singled out women in the title of this post, and the reason is simple: generally speaking, men are usually more direct and literal when they speak, while women often try to express their feelings in a roundabout way that can confuse men.
Many guys will take a woman’s words literally when she says she doesn’t care about him, or that things can’t work, rather than realize he needs to try to read into the emotion behind the words, and be supportive to find the real root of her confusion.
So why is it that women sometimes confuse things in important, emotional moments, by saying the opposite of what they really feel? One reason may be uncertainty, which leads to insecurity: if a woman is unsure of her partner’s feelings for her, she may try to provoke him to express them. But being afraid to let her own feelings be known (which may in fact encourage him to be honest), she may create an unsubstantiated argument, in an effort to get him to share more (without linking her feelings to the real issue): if he cares about me, his disagreement will tell me so; if he doesn’t care, he’ll walk away without me showing my vulnerable side.
This type of strategy works against men’s way of thinking, and will usually create a lot of confusion. Guys usually like looking for solutions to problems, but if we’re told that someone has no feelings for us, that’s a very conclusive statement; the only logical solution (if we take the words literally) is to give up and move on, rather than try to work through challenges.
Women who are used to being deflective about their feelings may have difficulty believing or trusting a guy who is upfront and honest about his feelings (thinking he’s lying about them, in the same way she’s used to doing), and at the same time, she won’t be happy if he doesn’t share his feelings openly. So what’s a guy supposed to do?
For me, I know it helps me get out of the ‘look for solutions’ mindset, and into the ‘listen and try to understand where this is coming from’ mentality, if my partner starts off by asking me to be quiet and just listen. That one small sentence makes all the difference, as I’m not caught off guard arguing about something that I never knew was an issue, and I instantly know that I need to be supportive and communicative, rather than quick to provide an answer.
It’s much easier to communicate when we talk openly about the real feelings and issues at hand. Dishonesty leads to disappointment, especially if it supports insecurities our partners may have, rather than building confidence in their positive sentiments. So the next time you see yourself making definitive statements that aren’t from the heart, apologize, and think about talking honestly about whatever’s bothering you; you’ll be surprised by how much better honesty alone can make you feel.
[13:16] i just wish sometimes i could play the dumb guy who doesn’t think and share so much. i think my personality makes things intense regardless of what i say or do
Life. - Not All Men Are Monsters - Sex. Travel. Food. Life. - Brian Johnston 
With time and trust, a person will be more inclined to confide in another. For many women, we grew up with our mothers (or fathers) telling us beware of men and what they will tell you to get into your pants. Have that instilled in you as you grow up and with a few life experiences, you will pretty much be a bit skeptical of what men tell you when you know them only for a short period of time, hoping that you are not being taken for a ride.
When a couple get together, emotions run high and we get more attached to our partners. We try to figure out where it is going. We try to read into everything our partners do. We might even subconsciously compare current partner with our father/brother ( people we are familiar/ feel a sense of security with) or our exes (what traits we don’t want to see again). We start getting unsure everytime he does something out of our familiarity of our ‘male model’. This might stem from skipping the friendship stage right from the start. We do not know the other side of him, when he is with friends, the people he is most comfortable with, the ‘real him’. We are basically unsure of you, and with every unfamiliar things you do, discomfort/ tension may build up. Some people choose to bring something up everytime it bothers them. I feel if I bring different things up over time, it might be seen as being too negative or critical. However, sometimes this works against me when the partner would say I don’t express what I think or when things bug me so much I blow up spontaneously and the guy becomes a casualty to my ultimate impatience to get my points across. What is a girl to do?
Fundamentally, everyone is looking for happiness and someone who cares. When we argue with our partners, what we are quarreling about a lot of the times are probably not even that important. What is more important is HOW the partners react. It is probably a silent request for reassurance from the partner that everything is still dandy between the two of us and our partner still think we are the best thing that has happened to them. When the man goes quiet, I think he thinks ‘not again and I cannot be bothered to go through this again’/ he zoned out/ he doesn’t care. This instantly puts me off and puts me out of the mood to talk/rifes me up, depending on the issues. Should there be some sign that you care, preferably the same intense reaction you give when you are watching your favourite football/basketball/rugby team play, and the same attentiveness you gave us when we first met, we would then secretly feel smug that we still command your unwavering interest and be partially soothed. Then there is probably a better chance to come to a satisfactory ending for the chat/argument.
I believe many women, including myself, are honest in our relationships. However, men have already been conditioned to think that women don’t say what they feel/think. Therefore, a lot of my honesty is often met with dubious looks. Of course, there will be times when some things are better left unsaid, to spare another’s feelings/ I feel my partner won’t understand at the time/we have not reached the level of trust/connection I require to confide certain information.
Many men have probably been brought up to be ‘rough and tough’. They have probably been taught to do the ‘right’ thing. Things are often dealt with methodically. Logic speaks louder than the emotions. Women are mostly brought up to be more in touch with our feelings and when we cry, nobody thinks twice about it being odd. Hence, when men deal with relationships, it is often like you say, walk away when you have been told there are no feelings and not work through the challenges. You might be hurting, but you will most probably be inclined to listen to your logic not to keep working on it. Women in relationships, deals with raw emotions (crazy about you) that we are very in touch with, torn between logic (this guy is trouble) instilled into us from young to present, endorphins (happy love hormones), PMS (when nothing goes right) and just about everything the men in front of us is doing (wrong) ( nit-picking). Unfortunately for many women, our emotions and logic both have the same loud voices, hence, mixed messages and constant questioning of our own decisions. We are not lying, we are basically weighing you up, wanting to know how much you want to hang around us and how firm you stand in the face of a storm. When you choose to walk away, we have our own formulated answers that you are the twat we always think you are. If you choose to stay and coax/fight/talk it out with us, preferably on our terms :p, ( and not go back to separate beds or go to bed angry) we have found our own hero. Yes, we are real bitches.
Thanks for the post! I would have liked to talk about many of your points, but it’s definitely better to hear them confirmed from a woman! 🙂
I think your words illustrate quite well how complicated and difficult it can be to know what a woman really means and what she’s thinking/comparing/judging when she starts an argument.
As you said, the ‘what’ is probably not as important as the ‘how he reacts’ from your perspective, but for a guy, one reason he may seem uninterested, is because he can’t figure out the ‘why’ she’s saying certain things, and therefore doesn’t know how to react. We generally like to think before responding, hence the silence, and when the comments are simply looking for a reaction rather than a particular discussion, we get confused, or as you say, we see that the person isn’t being straight about what she wants to talk about, so we tune out a bit, and let her go on with the screaming and accusations, until she’s calmed down and is ready to share the real issue. And we hope not to internalize too much of the stuff while she does it, because we know that if we did the same thing back to her, she’d be crying.
You’re not bitches, and we’re not assholes. But the more we understand and adapt to our different ways of communicating, the less we’ll use those words to describe each other, and ourselves.. 😉
How to not react with a such title Brian? That’s a provocation, in the same way women do to you. Is it enough to convince you that we all have the same ability to provoke one another?
More seriously, I would be glad to share my thoughts -and a bit of theory-about this interesting topic that would be useful, for everyone, to understand.
But I advise you all that I’m not going to talk about women but about human beings, men and women.
The only natural differences between the two are physical. The others differences are cultural, products of educations and often wrong as, like any other stereotypes, we can prove what we want. Humanity is so wide that I can find examples to argue that long haired men who wear glasses and who are non-smokers are selfish!
Having said that, I liked SW’s answer and I totally agree with her.
Especially the need to provoke you guys who, in the same educational and cultural way don’t talk a lot usually. I can add a linguistic notion about the word « provoke » from the latin « pro vocare » which means « for the voice, to have the voice ». We provoke as soon as we need the other’s voice. It’s not only a women’s matter but we do use it often as it’s the best way to know what a silent man thinks, even if it means to lye or to say negative things.
Also I agree with the cautious and the suspicion a lot of girls have and with the pleasure of testing, that may come from the Middle-Age tournament!
But sometimes, this kind of behaviour is not justified by a silent man or a cautious women. Sometimes, it’s not planned, it’s not something that we have wanted or about we have thought.
I would like to share some of psychological theories (that I understood more or less) as I think they can help us here.
First, there is the idea of the projection.
As we are all self-oriented according to Freud, we keep looking for a part of ourselves in the others. We will love in the others the things we like in ourselves and we will hate in them the bad things of ourself. That explains every feeling we can have toward a person: love, friendship, stress, anger etc. Sometimes it doesn’t seem logical but we have to think in ourselves to understand. In the same way, but conversely, we project us in the others. Example 1: if he smiles, it’s because he loves this place (but it’s me who love this place)
Example 2: « you are not in love anymore, you’re nervous about me » (I can’t admit that I’m not in love anymore so I pass him this bad feeling).
The second psychological point that can explain certain behaviours is the job of the langage who is a third party between us and our actions: when we can put a word on our feeling, we handle it, no problem. For example I know that this sensation is hungry and even better I know that if I eat, I will be better. Other example, I know that with this person, I’m shy. I don’t know how to resolve the problem but at least I can put a word on this feeling, I can express it so no problem neither.
But there is some feelings we never learnt to call. In that case, it’s a real problem and we can’t think anymore, we act like in short-circuits, directly, without going through the saving langage.
I can give a extreme exemple of this situation if I take the case of mistreating parents. Mistreating parents (often ill-treated themselves by their parents) have never learnt in their first years to put words on their feelings. Yet, the first job of parents is to tell, with words, to their child that he cries because is hungry, because it’s cold, that here I’m happy with you, now I’m very angry because you have broken my glasses etc.
If the mother is alcoholic or psychotic or for any reason doesn’t teach her child what is the feeling he has (or if she does but at random, mistaking the feeling of hungry with the feeling of curious), the child will have serious problems and he will be unable to do, in his turn, this fundamental job to his children.
Anyway. What happens when a such mother is in a critical situation, as it’s the case when she hears her baby crying? She is unable to call the feeling she has « stress » or « tension ». The only thing she knows is that she wants it to stop, she can’t stand it (and we all can’t stand any feeling when we can’t put a word on it). So she acts without going through the langage, that is to say she bits or kills him.
That’s a extreme situation of course but it can help to understand what happens in ourselves when, like the mother of my story, we can’t put a word on our feeling. And in spite of a a very good education, we don’t know to call all of our feelings. I can’t give an example here as precisely, I don’t have the word! But I think about all this fucking days I feel bad but I don’t know why, I am nervous and I’m negative with my partner without reason but because it’s the only way to relieve me a bit, even if it’s just for a second. Here, we are in a case of being unable to put a word on our state. I just want to stop this bad feeling and as there is no word, no thinking, no intelligence to help me, I just act and we’ll see later the consequences. (Often bad , there is nothing worth on earth than a Human being who has lost his ability of using the langage. Animals are helped by instincts)
Here we are, this was the psychological lesson of the day, I’m sorry if it was too long!
But, I want to be clear: women are not more cared by this human being ‘s deficiency. Everyone is but it seems that people are more regarding with women than with men.
Short-circuited acts can be:
– Hit a wall with nerves, shouting « shut up », leaving without saying anything, listen to the TV or music avoiding the contact, give up one’s family…
– Cry during hours, moan, shout, tell « I don’t love you anymore » or « I want to leave you » when it’s not true, hit or give up one’s child…
You will notice that I separate the examples above in two part. The first one is generally the way of reactions of men which are regarded as being viril, normal, philosophic, understandable. The second part are generally women’s types of reactions, seing as stupid, lyes, criminal, unacceptable!
No SW, we are not bitches, we are like every human being but for a reason I don’t know, we are told to be perfect.
Well, that’s quite the reply, thanks for sharing a number of interesting perspectives!
First, I need to say that there’s a big difference between asking an honest question that’s analyzed in an objective discussion, and negatively telling someone the opposite of what we feel during an emotional moment, hoping they’ll somehow understand it. But yes, I do know how to provoke.. 😉
I can also write a post about men’s communication skills (I do talk about both sides), but I wanted to focus this one on a particular habit of women that I have experienced many times, regardless of cultural or religious upbringing. I do find it interesting how women will often find a blunt piece of information provoking, rather than truthful (which is another reason why we are often silent in arguments, until we know the person is ready to hear the truth): imagine the fireworks if we both used the same strategies when trying to communicate with each other (have you ever worked in an all-women office?)! 😉
And for the record, I don’t see the women’s reactions that you listed as stupid, I see the guy’s ones you listed as a loss of control (which both sets are in fact); I guess it’s a matter of perspective, based on us being opposite sexes, with different ideas of what is normal. In either case, those tempered reactions tend to happen, again, when we don’t understand how we communicate differently (with and without words), and don’t try to find a middle ground. I can only hope that our posts will help create a common language or dialogue for some couple out there..
thanks again! 🙂
Ah communication, another interesting topic. From where I stand that is really what this discussion is all about. How do we transmit our feelings to the other person and how does that person interpret what I have disclosed? We can have trouble communicating with someone of the same sex because our pattern of speech made up of the words we use and how we put them together. This can be determined by our degree of education, the neighborhood we grew up in, the area of the city or country as well as the ethnic mix. What a word may mean to me might not be quite the same to you, but when I use it I think you understand it the same as I. That’s just a word, never mind a sentence or phrase. Now I add my body language, and from experiments done on communication I believe the spoken word only accounts for 9% of communication. Now add in our particular emotional peculiarities and yes the fact that as SW mentioned girls and boys are raised with warnings about how the other sex is and thinks.Of course throw in our own insecurities and our belief that we have to protect our self and you can see how easy communication is. I also do believe that we do have different natures which plays a part in how we try to satisfy our similar needs. I do believe our needs are similar in that we all crave companionship in which we can feel so secure that we are not afraid to be ourselves. The thing that gets in our way is fear!!!!! Fear that I will be found wanting, that I will not be worthy, that I’m not pretty/handsome enough, not smart enough etc.
There is a book “Wild at Heart” which I believe really describes the different nature of men and women and why. Every woman needs to feel that she is the beauty in someones eyes and that her prince charming is willing to fight for her and that he wants to have her share in his adventures. Because yes, men are made to be adventurers and need to be seen as the hero and protector in some beauties eyes. The problem is because of our messed up state all of this basic stuff gets convoluted and we get caught up in denials because of various emotional baggage that is continually passed on and down the generations. Yes women will test men, because they have a need to have a man stand by her. Just as we feel proud when we can say we brought home the bacon, because there are no dragons to slay. We want to be seen going off to battle with our fair maiden’s scarf around our arm or neck or anywhere that it can be seen. We have an attraction for each other,we are drawn to each other. We were made that way that the species might continue. Yes men get silent and walk away because they are confused about how things have changed and they don’t feel they can slay the dragon and no one is watching or cheering for him if he did. And because he is the strong warrior he cannot express confusion, that would be weak and that’s unbecoming a knight.
Thanks for adding another dimension of clarification (as usual) Ken. You are right to say that this is another post about communication. And what I think is very important, even essential, is for us to recognize not only that we do communicate in different ways (none of which are bad or wrong, just different), and that if we want to understand and be understood, especially in emotional moments, then it will serve us well to try to understand how the recipient of our message interprets and shares (both verbally and without words), so that we can find the queues and strategies that will take us out of our communication comfort zone, and into a space where we all try to listen and understand before responding (and potentially blowing up out of frustration).